Negotiation Watch

Share your comments and thoughts about the contract negotiations.

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86 responses to this post.

  1. I can only hope that by saying nothing they are not done negotiating!

    • Posted by drichmn on June 24, 2010 at 9:10 pm

      If they were done they would have said that. We’ll have to see how it goes tomorrow. If we make it through tomorrow without a “talks broke down” story followed by a 10 strike notice I’d say they are probably making some progress.

  2. Posted by JoJo on June 24, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    Well, MNA just posted that zero progress was made…suprise, suprise! I hope that they continue negociations and reach an agreement. I guess I am just being hopeful. This is a great blog! Love reading the comments from real nurses who care.

  3. Kare 11 news just reported that there are negotiations scheduled for Tuesday but MNA will file an intent to strike tomorrow. Ch 4 reported MNA said zero progress was made during negotiations. Fox 9 news also reported an intent will be filed tomorrow.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 24, 2010 at 10:17 pm

      nice way to uphold the media blackout on MNA’s part. This just confirms to me that they are not negotiating in good faith and never intended to. I’m sure their “picnic” will turn into a strike rally. Very very sad.

      • Posted by wildfox on June 25, 2010 at 5:46 pm

        I thought when they said there was a media blackout that something horrible happened. I guess a strike notice is not good news for our patients.

  4. Posted by Maryann on June 24, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    I was hoping progress would be made today. I fear for my job if this isn’t resolved. (I’m not a nurse.)

    • Maryann, I am so sorry if this hurts you and your job. I don’t think MNA is looking at how much this is hurting others. In the end MNA might get what they want but how high will the price be? the hospitals may have to lay off other staff to pay for the strike and for what MNA is proposing. I will pray all stays well for you and many others who will be affected by this.

      • Posted by you have support on June 24, 2010 at 10:48 pm

        nostrikefornurses, thank you for your post. The possibility of being collateral damage at the end of this has many non-nurses frightened. I am concerned about how will we rebuild a healing environment for our patients after all this is over (if I am still working……). I’m afraid that some relationships have been damaged beyond repair.

      • Posted by Maryann on June 24, 2010 at 10:54 pm

        Thanks so much. I realize there are nurses out there who aren’t oblivious to the bigger picture. The power of those running the MNA is scary, though. I saw many people laid off last year, and some of those layoffs increased my workload. I was OK with that (job security for me). I took a mandatory furlough since I don’t work in direct patient care. I was OK with that (it gave me extra time with my kids over the summer, but wasn’t permanent). I didn’t get a pay raise last year. Not thrilled, but I was OK with that because I realized that, combined with all of the other things, was necessary for the good of the entire organization. No money has been put into my pension for two years because of the economy. Heck, I’m lucky to even have a pension at all this day in age. Our organization made great strides in regaining a bit of a cushion with all we did last year. An open-ended strike is going to put us back to square one financially…if not worse. I realize that patient safety can always be improved, but I also realize that MN has some of the best patient safety numbers in the country and we don’t have the mandatory staffing that CA has (and our rates are better than theirs). How are mandatory staffing and pay raises and pension contributions out of line w/ the economy going to help? I’m angry and sad about all of this. I’ve been involved with healthcare starting as a volunteer in high school, through my internships in college and all my different jobs at hospitals and clinics. I’ve always been proud of what I do even if it isn’t in direct patient care…I could make more money if I worked in the “for profit” world, but (much to the dismay of my husband at times) I don’t feel it’s always about the money.

        • Maryann, it is sad the damage all this has done. There is still hope…but that is fading in my eyes.

          • Posted by anotherview on June 25, 2010 at 5:18 am

            Unfortunately, it will not be just non-nursing staff laid off in the end. Strikes typically end with changes in units, re-bidding for jobs and some nurses not even getting their jobs back. Thos that do come back to a different shift, different unit. If it gets really bad, units will close and nurses, too will face a layoff. No one wins in a strike. It is a sad, sad day for healthcare. I just hope and pray that good sense takes over somewhere.

  5. Posted by drichmn on June 24, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    JUNE 24, 2010 STATEMENT FROM THE MINNESOTA NURSES ASSOCIATION: Our nurses spent more than 13 hours today doing our best to stay hopeful about negotiations. Unfortunately, zero progress was made. Despite today’s setback, our nurses offered to return to the bargaining table again on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and every other day until a contract agreement can be reached. Instead, the Twin Cities Hospitals responded that the earliest they could meet would be sometime next week. It has become beyond obvious to our nurses that the Twin Cities Hospitals, despite what they continue to say publicly, have no interest in meaningful or good faith negotiations.

    I’m sorry to say I don’t believe them.

    • Posted by Noncontract RN on June 24, 2010 at 11:22 pm

      I dont either.

    • Posted by Mary Smith on June 25, 2010 at 12:04 am

      This was not a surprise at all. All MNA has been talking about for at least one year is to strike. In the meetings held with RNs this week, they were told the strike notice would be filed on Friday. So much for negotiations. All a big joke to them.

      • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 12:11 am

        do you have any way to confirm that is what MNA was telling nurses?

        • Posted by anotherview on June 26, 2010 at 5:35 am

          The fact is that the Federal Mediators asked both sides to take some time to review their positions and then set the day as Tuesday. Since they are at a point of needing Federal Mediation, the groups are at the mercy of FMCS being available. It is possible and likely that each side, in addition to reviewing their proposals, were given some things to do – gathering information, etc BEFORE re-meeting. MNA as usual has put their spin on it to make the hospitals look bad and try to look good for their members like they are actually doing something besides stalling for a strike.

    • Posted by wildfox on June 25, 2010 at 5:49 pm

      Having a strike vote and giving a strike notice is not good faith bargaining. Shame on you MNA.

  6. Posted by acsofs on June 24, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Sounds like strike begins July 5th.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 24, 2010 at 10:36 pm

      and that was the talk even before the strike vote. I am really disgusted with how MNA has played this out in the media from the beginning. And even when the mediator called them together there was an undercurrent of expectation that right afterward MNA would do exactly what they did.

      • Although the announcement sickens me I am not surprised. We will continue to support each other on this site and provide information as the strike draws near.

  7. Posted by NurseinMN on June 24, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    Hi all,
    New blogger here 🙂 Thanks so much for setting this up, it is so refreshing to read after all of the MNA junk that is out there. I say…bring on the strike. I crossed the picket line during the one-day strike on June 10th, and I can honestly say it was one of the best days of my nursing career – to be able to be there for my patients in such a crisis situation was an experience I wouldn’t trade for anything. Despite the animosity (to say the least) that I am facing from my co-workers, I would cross again in a heartbeat!! I went to school to take care of patients….not walk on a picket line!

    • Thank you so much for sharing your story! It is so good to hear for the many who are facing this in the very near future. I love that you said you were able to be there for your patients….because that is what it is all about!!

    • Posted by drichmn on June 24, 2010 at 11:35 pm

      Welcome. We’re here to support you and answer any questions you may have. Feel free to participate in any of the blog topics and check out the blogroll links. It seemed to me over the last week that this strike was inevitable. It’s going to be a difficult summer for us all. I fear it will take a long time to repair the damage to relationships and collaborative practice that this animosity has caused. It’s a good thing to put patients first.

  8. Posted by Tom on June 24, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    My sympathy is with all nurses and other hospital workers this evening. The MNA’s negotiating tactics have been transparent for more than a month and tomorrow it will come to a serious milestone with the filing of a 10-day strike notice. I still hope and pray that MNA will back off its rhetoric and its untenable, unworkable, unproven, unaffordable demands for fixed staffing requirements, mandatory ER diversion, hospital closure to new admissions and fines. These are not the right solutions; a labor contract is not the right vehicle; and MNA is not a legitimate organization to have this kind of decision-making power in how hospitals manage their operations.

    As time has passed, MNA has unfortunately become a destructive obstacle to hospital-based inter-disciplinary efforts aimed at improving performance, reliability and outcomes. I truly hope that MNA can be influenced by its members to back off, save face, pursue what is reasonable and achievable . . . and then GET OUT OF THE WAY. If this threatened strike occurs, it will not be short and it will not be painless for nurses, hospitals and patients.

    • Tom, I agree with you on all points. MNA needs to back off or there will be alot of unrepairable damage done to many….not just nurses. MNA should not be dealing with the staffing issues..couldn’t each hospital have a committe to deal with these issues? I don’t think MNA will back off at this point….they feel they have the power and are running with it.

    • Posted by wildfox on June 25, 2010 at 5:54 pm

      Tom, Like you stated before after the strike in 1984 the domino effect of a long strike could and probably will lead to hospital closures, permanently. There are many nurses who are going to cross picket line this time but will it be enough to save our health care institutions?

  9. Our announcement late tonight from Children’s said that plans will be activated for a strike and units may begin to close this next week. Wish MNA would see all the damage this is doing.

  10. Posted by acsofs on June 25, 2010 at 12:20 am

    As I watch things crumble around me, I can’t help but think of how much I appreciate this blog. Thank you so much anurse, drichmn and all. We can lean on each other to get through this.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 12:33 am

      I’m just glad to know that I’ve helped anurse make this blog a place you all can come for information, support and whatever guidance we can give to each other.

    • We will lean on each other…and somehow we will figure out a way to change this process and achieve something good out of this mess. Hang in there….we are all feeling sick about the strike but are feeling empowered by all the support we are feeling here (no group mentality though) you are still free to have your own beliefs.

  11. Posted by Cynthia on June 25, 2010 at 12:48 am

    I was so sadden to hear that a strike notice will be filed. I am a non-contract nurse, and was in my hospital on June 10th. It has been tragic watching the relationships that MNA and NNU has torn apart that will take years to repair. My co-workers and I love this site, thank you it gives us hope.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 5:48 am

      Thank you. Non-contract nurses and hospitals are also affected by this. We’ll be here for you and your coworkers as well.

  12. Posted by Serenity on June 25, 2010 at 4:41 am

    Well, I must say I’m not surprise but saddened there will be another strike. I hope those of us who plan to cross the picket line will do our best to keep whatever hospital we work at functioning almost normal with giving our patients the best care ever and helping whoever comes in to help to do so also. Remember there will be plenty of resources to utilize and that if we go in with smiling faces it will help each day go smooth. I plan on doing my best because I believe in my patients trusting me and I love working where I work. I know there will be more nurses crossing the picket line this time and they will need our confidence and smiling faces. We can do our best, we love patient care and that’s why we are nurses!!!!

    • Posted by you have support on June 25, 2010 at 5:33 am

      and we will be there to support you however we can. We need each other now more than ever because what matters the most is the patient. Everything else can be worked out if we work together and respect what each brings to the table. Thank you for truly demonstrating the “We Care for You” slogan.

      • One good that might come out of this are relationships with staff that we normally would not have known or met but now are supporting each other during this time.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 5:55 am

      Tell anybody you hear about wanting to cross or anybody that does cross about this blog. And let them know they can remain anonymous as they wish.

  13. Posted by Anonymous on June 25, 2010 at 7:30 am

    I am a hospital worker who does not support this strike. I love what nurses do, they have my utmost respect, but I only support those that WANT to do their jobs and put patients first. I commend any nurse that crosses the picket line to do the right thing.

  14. Posted by Anonymous on June 25, 2010 at 7:30 am

    Sad, sad day but both sides clearly locked in. Thanks for this perspective.
    Group think going on and folks being manipulated for an agenda.

  15. Posted by klong on June 25, 2010 at 8:34 am

    I’m pleased to see this site.

  16. Posted by klong on June 25, 2010 at 10:09 am

    nostrikefornurses –

    I’m a bit suprised by the low volume of posts here (maybe I shouldn’t be.) Is the media aware of the site?

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 10:28 am

      I’m not surprised. We are getting alot of page views. Many nurses are leery about commenting even though they can use an alias and either set up a new email address for the alias or just not comment at all.

      • Posted by klong on June 25, 2010 at 10:37 am

        Has nostrikefornurses informed the media of this site. They might appreciate knowing of it as one more source to the opinions within the broader discussion.

        • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 10:56 am

          Esme Murphy has it on her Twitter. And some of us have talked to the Star Tribune reporter for a story that is slated for Sunday.

    • klong, I am actually thrilled by the number of comments and that over 15,000 views to this site. I started it last Saturday as a chat room for some of us to post information and discuss issues without being debated for our lack of supporting a strike. I never imagined how word would spread! Please encourage others to share and can do so anonymously! We are here to support and provide information to everyone….not only nurses but also all the others affected by this strike.

  17. Posted by Anonymous on June 25, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Sadly, the negotiation process reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies. The infamous “she’s a witch!” scene from “The Holy Grail”. I cast the MNA in playing the role of the screaming townsfolk. The Witch is played by TCH and Sir Bedimer is played by this site.

    With that in mind, it appears to me that the townsfolk has never desired any other outcome instead of a major nationally televised fear inducing strike.

    Unlike the movie, not just the witch is going to suffer from a strike. In addition to the patients that the MNA tries so hard to sound like they care about. There are thousands of non-RN coworkers who are going to be “asked” to reduce their hours to help reduce payroll costs. Those coworkers are also worried about layoffs.

    The MNA is playing a dangerous and arrogant game with far too many peoples lifes and livelyhoods. The MNA nurses who do not support the strike and plan on crossing have all my support, sympathy and respect.

  18. Posted by Patientcaresupport on June 25, 2010 at 10:54 am

    Thank you for this site, as someone in a support position in one of the 14 hospitals it is getting increasingly difficult to keep everyone focused on patient care and not on the ridiculosity (my word) of the circus that MNA and NNA are making of this entire situation. Those of that will be “left behind” in a strike and have the stress of working with replacement nurses (I refuse to use the S word), will be doing what MNA is saying they want to do and keeping patient safe, while they go out and have a block party on the picket line (seriously). My pay has been frozen at no more than 3 percent for 5 years but I am glad I have a job and health insurance. I love Allina and ANW and have never worked for a better hospital. To all of you nurses out there that will be crossing the line and working with your support staff, please know that if we do not say it, we are incredibly grateful to you for your commitment to your patients, employer and for being the few that actually are thinking about how this will affect your co-workers that are left to try and hold things together.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 10:58 am

      Thank you so much for commenting. We appreciate your support. Please tell your coworkers that this site is also available to support them through this strike. We are all in this together.

  19. Posted by Tom on June 25, 2010 at 10:59 am

    I just had to share an interesting tidbit. I posted a short note on mnablog suggesting that nurses may want to visit nostrikefornurses (I included the link) to read and reflect on what some of their colleagues are thinking and saying. It was short, polite and non-judgemental.

    My post went into “moderation” and then got disappeared! It seems that MNA is not really interested in opening up any discussion of their tactics or valuing any voices of disention that might have valid questions or comments.

    No matter how this strike action turns out, I truly hope that cooler heads will prevail and work to change leadership in your labor union — or even decertify it, if necessary. The MNA is not serving your interests or your higher purpose.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 11:04 am

      Did you have any doubt that is what they would do? Any dissension is being interpreted as “anti-union”. That’s when you know that group think has taken hold. They are in the own little bubble now and can’t tolerate hearing anything other than their own views parroted back. Very unfortunate thing to behold.

      • Posted by Tom on June 25, 2010 at 11:22 am

        I had no doubt . . . but I suspect that there are still some dues-paying nurses who are unable or unwilling to see that they are being manipulated, lied to and positioned to take the fall for a labor union that is only interested in pushing an unreasonable and self-serving set of contract proposals.

        Further — no matter what the short-term outcome may be — it is time to recognize just how dysfunctional MNA has become and to not just exhale and wait another three years for this same MNA leadership to rear its head again.

        • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 11:32 am

          a gentle warning about name calling. Criticism is one thing but I don’t want to see it cross the line. I’m going to edit out the name calling and leave the rest intact.

    • Tom, I have seen other comments disappear as well if they question MNA but we appreciate your experienced words of wisdom on this site.

      • I personally had a comment disappear on the MNA site awhile back as well. I was just questioning their finances. Does that seem “inflammatory” enough to be taken down w/in a hour of posting? I was just asking for facts…

  20. Posted by acsofs on June 25, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Posted by nostrikefornurses –
    “One good that might come out of this are relationships with staff that we normally would not have known or met but now are supporting each other during this time.”

    I like that thought. 🙂

  21. Posted by acsofs on June 25, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    We can post this website in our hospital breakrooms for anyone interested. MNA may take the post down, but there’s always more paper, right?

    • Absolutely! Although there may be others who do not agree and yes will take it down. I am not so sure we are in such a minority as I once thought.

      • Posted by anotherview on June 26, 2010 at 5:40 am

        Managers have the website information and it was suggessted to them that they ensure it stay posted on the non-mna bulletin boards. They will be checking to make sure it stays up.

  22. Posted by Chewie on June 25, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    I wonder why the press hasn’t picked up on and called out the MNA for disrupting patient care and blocking people to care by blowing bugles outside of St Joes and blocking entrances to ERs with AFL-CIO trucks….

  23. Posted by RelocatedRN on June 25, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Hello. I would like an honest opinion on the problem I am having. I have been told by a hospital that my job offer is on hold due to all the talks and strike stuff. Well with this news it puts it on hold even more. If you were in my shoes, would you wait it out or would you sign up with a company who supplies the replacement nurses? I am worried about burning bridges for when I do officially get hired….Any help or opinions on this matter would be greatly appreciated!.

    • Posted by Chewie on June 25, 2010 at 1:47 pm

      Sign up. You need to take care of you.

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 1:54 pm

      If it was me and I needed to work, I’d sign up as well.

    • I don’t know if anyone can give you the right answer….as no one knows what will happen after the strike is done. You are right to be concerned about burning bridges…but again you have to decide what is best for you and your family…good luck with our decision…and if you decide to work during the strike many of us will be there to help you!

      • Posted by RelocatedRN on June 25, 2010 at 2:26 pm

        I am going to wait till after Tuesday to decide. I will see how the talks go. If I do decide to do it. I am going to request to be at a hospital that I don’t have a job offer at…..At least I think that’s the best idea. What bugs me the most about this is….all the nurses complaining about being called for extra shifts but what they don’t realize is that hospitals put a hiring freeze on in May due to all of the talks of strikes. So they didn’t get to fill the open positions which still leaves you short staffed. And I came from Arizona where quite frequently we were at 6 to 1 ratio on nights and we were suppose to be the 4 to 1 unit. Our regular med/sug and uro floor were always 6 to 1 on nights and 5 to 1 on days. And there have been no raises in Tucson since 2007. And the starting wages down there are about 7 dollars less then up here. It makes me think that some nurses should go to another state and see how good they have it here!

        • Many fail to see the bigger picture. I think working at a hospital in which you don’t have an offer on the table is a good idea if you decide to work.

        • Posted by Leyla on June 25, 2010 at 6:36 pm

          I feel the same way! I haven’t worked out of state, but I’ve heard/read about the differences in wages and benefits, as well as staffing ratios.
          If it were me I would totally take advantage of your situation and sign on with a staffing agency. I think choosing to work at a different hospital than the one you want to work permanently sounds like a wise choice.

          • Posted by RelocatedRN on June 25, 2010 at 7:24 pm

            Thanks….I made the phone call to Healthsource tonight. Now i just need to get all the paperwork done. I still hope that it doesnt come down to actually having the strike but who knows. I begin to wonder if the people on the negotiating team are people who actually need to work or if they are just in it for the power.

            • Posted by anotherview on June 26, 2010 at 5:44 am

              Don’t forget Nursefinders (they might be using On Assignment or TNS, traveling nurse services). They are doing a great job with the replacement nurses and supporting them through the process. Plus, they are going to the Allina process which has an excellent on-boarding process. I think you will be OK signing on as a replacement and then working at a different location. Even if you wanted to work at the same hospital, I still think you would be OK. MNA is not getting close enough to see individuals much less remember who they are.

            • Posted by LoveMyJob on June 26, 2010 at 6:53 am

              One suggestion, when you show up for your processing bring two hard copies of EVERYTHING! Even the stuff you did online for HSG they will need printed copies of. For the one day strike this created long long lines. I heard repeatedly – “I could have brought it with me if I had known!”

  24. Posted by Metro Resident/ non-nurse on June 25, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Best of luck to all involved.
    I hope cooler heads prevail, but I doubt that will happen from what I’ve heard.

    Many nurses I’ve talked to feel extremely intimidated by their own union. As an example, a couple said that when they voted they weren’t allowed to fold their ballots when putting their vote in the box and the ballot box tender gave “I voted yes” stickers to everyone that voted for the strike. If true that does sound pretty intimidating. Every nurse I’ve talked to is surprised at the % that voted yes. many of them know more that voted no than yes. Most voted no for many reasons, but topmost was the doubt about the unfair labor practices decision.

    • The unfair labor practice, which MNA is claiming, could be trouble. I would love a lawyer’s point of view on this. From what I understand if the hospitals are not guilty of ULP the nurses can be permanently replaced. Some argue that they can’t replace all 12,000….but how many of your co-workers are planning on continuing to work? They won’t have to replace us all.

      • Posted by LoveMyJob on June 26, 2010 at 6:59 am

        Could the hospitals choose to hire back those that were willing to cross as well as any other great nurses that temporarily sipped the Kool-aid but regained their senses? This could be the opportunity to weed out the nurses that have been creating a toxic work environment but the union protected.

    • Posted by ConcernedNurse on June 26, 2010 at 8:51 pm

      This is exactly the problem. I had been told that they often set up the voting boxes so there are is a “yes” line and a “no” line, so everyone can see what you are voting. I know that they need all the “no’s” they can get, but this is not an environment I want to be part of; there is a definite mob mentality at my current facility. I guess this is why they don’t have some sort of online voting – they want to make sure they get as many “yes” votes as possible. Providing anonymity will give MNA their desired outcome.

  25. Posted by RelocatedRN on June 25, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Well when we moved up here, we had saved up a bit of money for moving and what not. I am just worried about the striking nurses taking action. A few of them seem so Gung ho on this strike and scab thing! I am more concerned for my family and myself then I am working…..

    • Posted by drichmn on June 25, 2010 at 2:26 pm

      the hospitals are taking measures to protect the safety of any nurses crossing the picket lines and those they bring in as replacements. I wouldn’t be fearful for my safety.

    • Posted by Leyla on June 25, 2010 at 6:44 pm

      On June 10th they made sure that there wasn’t any interaction between the replacement workers and those who went on strike. Hospital management and other staff held the fort for a half hour or so in between arrivals and departures. Security was also beefed up and present at the picket lines and in the parking lot. They also had a process in place so that we were all able to easily identify if an individual worker was meant to be in the hospital or not (in other words, difficult for a striking nurse to just wander in and see how things were going, who was working, etc.). Also, they set up another location so current staff could choose to be shuttled into the hospital, rather than having to drive themselves across the picket line.

  26. Posted by wondering1984 on June 25, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    I have been assuming all along the intent of the union was to strike. There were nurses talking about it in March. That is and has been the ultimate goal, and it is sad. So many people will be impacted by this. Look back at the healthcare scene in 1984 pre-strike and 3-5 years post ’84 strike. How many hospitals closed in those years? Why should the nurses expect anything different this time around? I suspect many have not thought that far ahead.

    • wondering1984, I have been appalled at the nurses saying that they have been preparing for this strike for months…and some have said 1-3 years. I have to ask why we should have been preparing for a strike for that long? I guess some have known that is the direction we were heading long before I saw the writing on the wall. I thought the goal was to negotiate our contract.

    • Posted by klong on June 25, 2010 at 2:41 pm

      I have not studied the bedding community wide. However, I believe that IF the community is overbedded, TCH will take this occasion to right-size the bedding. It only makes sense from a management/fiscal perspective. I happen to know the plans are in place for re-bedding the community – that’s just prudent planning. We’ll see.

    • Posted by Leyla on June 25, 2010 at 6:46 pm

      I guess I need to do a bit more research. I was only 5 during the ’84 strike. Did hospitals actually end up closing?

  27. Posted by zzzzzzx6 on June 25, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Please note name change. Now same as Star Tribute site.

  28. Posted by zzzzzzx6 on June 25, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Opps – forgot to mention was “klong.”

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